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Thread: All is not lost. Yet.

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    Volunteer MOZ's Avatar
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    Default All is not lost. Yet.

    Final Newsletter!


    The decision has been made for the Australian Junior Chess League to be folded effective immediately and for all matters to be handled by the ACF directly.



    This unfortunately means this Newsletter will be the last one you will be receiving in my official capacity of editor. All email addresses registered to receive the newsletter will be passed on to the ACF. They may start to incorporate a junior section in future ACF newsletters and include your address on this list. If you do not wish for your address to be passed on to the ACF, please unsubscribe from this newsletter BEFORE Sunday 14th January 5pm.

    The Facebook page also has to come to an end. We will close the Facebook page down on Sunday 14th January. (Of course we cannot stop anyone else from creating a similar page and we would be happy to share the link and notify the community...)

    The Flikr Photo page will be closed and photo's will be returned to their owners.

    The website will also be closed down. Hopefully the links to the upcoming tournaments and events will be incorporated onto the ACF website, but at this stage I do not have any further information.

    Please feel free to contact ACF president Gary Wastell (22 Bruarong Crescent, Frankston South, Victoria 3199 Australia, 0409 525 963, 03 9787 7974 (H), president@auschess.org.au) or other ACF committee members if you would like more information about the decision and the future of Australian Junior Chess.

    It has been an absolute pleasure volunteering on this committee and seeing the community grow. In the last three years, I've seen this newsletter distribution list grow to over 500 people and the Facebook page started only a couple of years and now has 306 likes! It is clear you are keen to be part of a community together!

    Thank you for building the Australian Junior Chess community and I hope to see you all around at future events!

    Kind Regards
    Sabrina Koetsier
    FReedom though Fischer-Random chess to enjoy the whole game.

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    Volunteer MOZ's Avatar
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    Always hard to do a jigsaw puzzle when most of the pieces are missing.

    Piece #1 Who moved the motion?
    Piece #2 Who seconded the motion?
    Piece #4 How did the outcomes of the AusJCL in 2017 measure up to objectives?
    Piece #5 What faults did the AusJCL have that were in need of attention?
    Piece #6 Is dismemberment without alternative resources at the table a wise move?
    Piece #7 Who benefits financially from the dismemberment?





    Let us have a look at piece #4 for 2017:

    • Elite training squad conducted in 2017 and planned for 2018. TICK.
    • Australian Junior out-sourced for January 2018, attracting record numbers. TICK.
    • Newsletters issued. TICK. Evidence.
    • Overseas selections made. TICK.
    • Bank accounts increased. TICK.
    • Most office-bearers appointed in 2017. TICK.

    X Budgets visible
    X Financial reporting visible

    Looks like a rather satisfactory EOY report.
    FReedom though Fischer-Random chess to enjoy the whole game.

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    Siberian Chess Tiger Axiom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MOZ View Post
    Final Newsletter!

    The decision has been made for the Australian Junior Chess League to be folded effective immediately and for all matters to be handled by the ACF directly.
    Has the reasoning for this decision been made public anywhere?

    (In the Final Newsletter?)
    "Don't let the snow get down the back of your pants" ~ SCT

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    Quote Originally Posted by Axiom View Post
    Has the reasoning for this decision been made public anywhere?

    (In the Final Newsletter?)
    Well, since my post (#2), I have been shown a piece of the puzzle.
    What the piece #7 looks like is that approximately $6200 of AusJCL financial assets revert back to the ACF (who 'think' they have made a loss for 2017).

    Of course, cold financial reports only talk about dollar numbers and lose sight of the the human accounting balance sheet. If volunteers are lost in this dismemberment (alternatively called dissolved by one delegate) then the nett loss to Australian chess will be significant.

    Perhaps the best prism to look through for this situation is, What structure* is the more likely to assist with the recruiting of office-bearers to junior chess administration (jca).

    * Structure in the sense of the ACF/JCA relationship. Independent vis-a-vis absorbed.
    FReedom though Fischer-Random chess to enjoy the whole game.

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    Senior Membaaaaaa HydraTED's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MOZ View Post
    Well, since my post (#2), I have been shown a piece of the puzzle.
    What the piece #7 looks like is that approximately $6200 of AusJCL financial assets revert back to the ACF (who 'think' they have made a loss for 2017).
    Looks like another case of chinese whispers here, regarding the bit in bold. I suspect you've been listening to an unreliable source.
    Note: I have poster antichrist on ignore. On no account should anyone assume that I agree with, or am unable to refute, any comment by poster antichrist, simply because I have not responded to it. Chances are I have not even seen it. (NB Quoting posts by antichrist to try to get around this issue will mostly be ineffective). I am also sometimes denied the ability of reply to false accusations in the shoutbox.

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    Volunteer MOZ's Avatar
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    Default Send three and four pence, we are going to a dance.

    Quote Originally Posted by MOZ View Post
    Well, since my post (#2), I have been shown a piece of the puzzle.
    What the piece #7 looks like is that approximately $6200 of AusJCL financial assets revert back to the ACF (who 'think' they have made a loss for 2017).
    Quote Originally Posted by HydraTED View Post
    Looks like another case of chinese whispers here, regarding the bit in bold. I suspect you've been listening to an unreliable source.
    Looks like another case of not accurately reading what I wrote.
    I said I had been shown a piece of the puzzle.
    A report.
    No, I did not say 'listening'.
    FReedom though Fischer-Random chess to enjoy the whole game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Axiom View Post
    Has the reasoning for this decision been made public anywhere?

    (In the Final Newsletter?)
    I am looking back at old newsletters (various) to see if vacancies had been advertised for 2018 positions.
    FReedom though Fischer-Random chess to enjoy the whole game.

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    Siberian Chess Tiger Axiom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MOZ View Post
    I am looking back at old newsletters (various) to see if vacancies had been advertised for 2018 positions.
    Well the newsletter producers are a forward thinking group.
    "Don't let the snow get down the back of your pants" ~ SCT

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    Quote Originally Posted by Axiom View Post
    Well the newsletter producers are a forward thinking group.
    There are of course two newsletter editors: AusJCL and ACF.
    FReedom though Fischer-Random chess to enjoy the whole game.

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    Siberian Chess Tiger Axiom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MOZ View Post
    There are of course two newsletter editors: AusJCL and ACF.
    Emphasising my point?

    I sincerely hope it's not a case of the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing.
    "Don't let the snow get down the back of your pants" ~ SCT

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    Quote Originally Posted by MOZ View Post
    Looks like another case of not accurately reading what I wrote.
    Far more likely another case of you not writing accurately and clearly, and then attempting to obfuscate as usual.

    For starters, your comment "who 'think' they have made a loss for 2017" could be taken to refer to either the ACF thinking the ACF has made a loss, or to the ACF thinking the AusJCL has made a loss.

    I initially took it to be the former, but it doesn't matter which as the claim is, at this time, baseless in either case. Though that said even if it is the latter and even if it was true, your dichotomy is entirely spurious as it's extremely possible that the AusJCL both had said balance and had made a loss.

    You may very well have seen a report suggesting the AusJCL was winding up with a balance of c.$6,200. However my criticism of your comment was explicitly limited to "the bit [I put] in bold", ie your "who 'think' they have made a loss for 2017". That is the part I believe is derived from unreliable sources, not the part about the $6,200.

    If somehow some "report" you have seen does contain some third-party reflection on the ACF's assumed views on losses made by any organisation, then the difference between you listening to and reading an unreliable source is utterly cosmetic.
    Note: I have poster antichrist on ignore. On no account should anyone assume that I agree with, or am unable to refute, any comment by poster antichrist, simply because I have not responded to it. Chances are I have not even seen it. (NB Quoting posts by antichrist to try to get around this issue will mostly be ineffective). I am also sometimes denied the ability of reply to false accusations in the shoutbox.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HydraTED View Post
    Far more likely another case of you not writing accurately and clearly, and then attempting to obfuscate as usual.

    For starters, your comment "who 'think' they have made a loss for 2017" could be taken to refer to either the ACF thinking the ACF has made a loss, or to the ACF thinking the AusJCL has made a loss.

    I initially took it to be the former, but it doesn't matter which as the claim is, at this time, baseless in either case. Though that said even if it is the latter and even if it was true, your dichotomy is entirely spurious as it's extremely possible that the AusJCL both had said balance and had made a loss.

    You may very well have seen a report suggesting the AusJCL was winding up with a balance of c.$6,200. However my criticism of your comment was explicitly limited to "the bit [I put] in bold", ie your "who 'think' they have made a loss for 2017". That is the part I believe is derived from unreliable sources, not the part about the $6,200.
    Well, we just wait for the report to become public, or the minutes, and we shall see about accuracy.


    Quote Originally Posted by HydraTED View Post
    If somehow some "report" you have seen does contain some third-party reflection on the ACF's assumed views on losses made by any organisation, then the difference between you listening to and reading an unreliable source is utterly cosmetic.
    Thanks for the admission that the whole concoction of yours about chinese whispers was a wrong assumption.
    FReedom though Fischer-Random chess to enjoy the whole game.

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    Senior Membaaaaaa HydraTED's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MOZ View Post
    Well, we just wait for the report to become public, or the minutes, and we shall see about accuracy.
    The ACF minutes will not tell you anything of the sort about the ACF's thought processes re the matter I queried, no matter what you might want to read into them. Any other "report" or minute presuming to speak for the ACF's position has no standing to do so.

    Thanks for the admission that the whole concoction of yours about chinese whispers was a wrong assumption.
    There was no such "admission", so give the strawmanning a permanent rest already. Someone has clearly said something confused and silly based on something they have heard or seen and then misunderstood. The only question is whether you have added further garbling, created the garbling yourself from scratch because you misunderstood the facts, or reproduced something that was already fully pre-garbled.

    Anyway this style of debate will do nothing to shed light on why the AusJCL has dissolved itself. If there are innocent parties with a genuine interest I am happy to discuss it on Chesschat. If there are guilty parties with a genuine interest then they will have to unburn their bridges first. They all know how by now, surely.
    Note: I have poster antichrist on ignore. On no account should anyone assume that I agree with, or am unable to refute, any comment by poster antichrist, simply because I have not responded to it. Chances are I have not even seen it. (NB Quoting posts by antichrist to try to get around this issue will mostly be ineffective). I am also sometimes denied the ability of reply to false accusations in the shoutbox.

  14. | #14
    Senior Member Firegoat7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HydraTED View Post
    The ACF minutes will not tell you anything of the sort about the ACF's thought processes re the matter I queried, no matter what you might want to read into them. Any other "report" or minute presuming to speak for the ACF's position has no standing to do so.
    Why?

    It could certainly answer a few civil questions that maintain a sense of transparency in the organisation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Moz

    Piece #1 Who moved the motion?
    Piece #2 Who seconded the motion?
    Given this information will be on the public record it ought to be considered harmless for the ACF to answer these two.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hydrated

    There was no such "admission", so give the strawmanning a permanent rest already. Someone has clearly said something confused and silly based on something they have heard or seen and then misunderstood. The only question is whether you have added further garbling, created the garbling yourself from scratch because you misunderstood the facts, or reproduced something that was already fully pre-garbled.
    It seems odd that an ACF representative would speculate about rumor in allegedly seeking to "clarify" the situation. I use the term clarify in the most generous of ways. Instead of confusing the situation an ACF official could answer any of the remaining questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Moz
    Piece #4 How did the outcomes of the AusJCL in 2017 measure up to objectives?
    Piece #5 What faults did the AusJCL have that were in need of attention?
    Piece #6 Is dismemberment without alternative resources at the table a wise move?
    Piece #7 Who benefits financially from the dismemberment?
    Of course this is providing Hydrated aka Dr Kevin Bonham is actually aware of the facts and is not responding emotively like he normally does on chess bulletin boards. A decent communicator and leader would take the initiative and clarify the ACF position in a transparent and accountable way. Hopefully a decent ACF spokesman could clarify the situation for the Australian Chess Community.

    cheers,
    Ozchess died on the 7/4/2013- killed by Gatekeepers



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    Senior Membaaaaaa HydraTED's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firegoat7 View Post
    Why?
    Because there was no ACF position taken (on the matter I challenged above) to be minuted. How, for instance, is the ACF supposed to take a position on whether or not the AusJCL has lost money in a given financial year when it has not seen any recent accounts?

    Given this information will be on the public record it ought to be considered harmless for the ACF to answer these two.
    Except these were AusJCL decisions not ACF ones so the details of who moved and seconded any motion to dissolve - assuming there even was a motion to dissolve - haven't been conveyed. And I have no idea why you would think that information would necessarily be on the public record.

    It seems odd that an ACF representative would speculate about rumor in allegedly seeking to "clarify" the situation.
    I do not represent the ACF in posting here and my primary motive is to debunk false claims and misapprehensions, whether in so doing anything further is clarified or not.

    Instead of confusing the situation an ACF official could answer any of the remaining questions
    I am not causing any confusion except for people who choose to invent it. MOZ has made a claim "who 'think' they have made a loss for 2017" and I have pointed out that this claim is both ambiguous and groundless. As MOZ has since provided no evidence for that claim, surely people here if they were interested in serious discussion could simply agree that that claim is ambiguous and groundless, not to mention of limited if any relevance, and stop arguing the point.

    Of course this is providing Hydrated aka Dr Kevin Bonham is actually aware of the facts and is not responding emotively like he normally does on chess bulletin boards.
    Well this is just more of the hypocritical garbage we come to expect from the violence-threatening David Beaumont (firegoat7) whose bad temper on bulletin boards makes any attempt by him to accuse much more factual and rational posters of "responding emotively" risible in the extreme.

    A decent communicator and leader would take the initiative and clarify the ACF position in a transparent and accountable way. Hopefully a decent ACF spokesman could clarify the situation for the Australian Chess Community.
    A decent communicator could do this, to the extent the answers were known, in response to a reasonably expressed enquiry posted on a reputable and well moderated forum with a significant audience. Or to a reasonable enquiry by private email from a person with a genuine motive.
    You asking me questions laced with ridiculously silly personal attacks in this place just doesn't tick those boxes.
    Note: I have poster antichrist on ignore. On no account should anyone assume that I agree with, or am unable to refute, any comment by poster antichrist, simply because I have not responded to it. Chances are I have not even seen it. (NB Quoting posts by antichrist to try to get around this issue will mostly be ineffective). I am also sometimes denied the ability of reply to false accusations in the shoutbox.

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