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Thread: Australian OPEN 2019(8) metrics.

  1. | #91
    Senior Member antichrist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axiom Support Group View Post
    Stick with it until the next Global Financial Crisis.
    Then, there will be a splinter preference group lobbying to mimic the PINK BATTS program with a REPLACE S_N_A_I_L MAIL BOXES program
    I want to make one in the shape of Palestine but will probably get wrecked every week

  2. | #92
    Senior Member Firegoat7's Avatar
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    The silence from Moz is palpable. Please don't tell me there is no contingency plan.
    Ozchess died on the 7/4/2013- killed by Gatekeepers



  3. | #93
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    Default Is this the one you are waiting a response on? Comments in coloured text below.

    Quote Originally Posted by Firegoat7 View Post
    Thanks for your reply.

    I think your chess club needs to decide who the Australian Open +1600 and Australian Open -1600 is targeting as a player.
    Our bid to the ACF did not specify any targetting nor conditional acceptance of money. We have operated first come first served. Plus, wide publicity of the event.


    Quote Originally Posted by Firegoat7 View Post
    This is after all not a rookies cup designed for the rookie player.
    We run WAIT-lists on BHCC Championship and BHCC OPEN, not just Rookies. It is a function of venue size.

    Quote Originally Posted by Firegoat7 View Post
    What I really don't like about the current waiting system is that you are running with the notion that these players are equal in strength.

    Obviously not, we print their ratings.



    Quote Originally Posted by Firegoat7 View Post
    It should be clear that a number of Australian superstars have missed a spot.
    I see no Caeser, Lighty Hammo,Rujevic,ZYZ, Eddy or Zman for example in the field.
    Doug and John are in.

    Quote Originally Posted by Firegoat7 View Post
    It would be reasonable to suggest that they may not even know the deadline was November for the tournament!

    My best guess of the potential field size is that 100 more would have entered if there had been room. That is not 100 late enquiries; it is just my guess.


    Quote Originally Posted by Firegoat7 View Post
    Obviously it is not in the organisers interests to allow titled players in for free now.
    But on the other hand, why shouldn't the organisers charge a premium fee for such a bumping service?
    Because it was always First-Come First-Served, within the parameters we set in TryBooking.com
    We did not bid on the basis of some convoluted bumping premium.

    Quote Originally Posted by Firegoat7 View Post
    I don't see why players are guaranteed a spot in the Australian open +1600 if they are under 1600.
    The Matthew Sweeney's of the world would see the other side of this argument, as would the Geoff Saw's I guess. Nothing to stop you lobbing to have a regulation change.


    Quote Originally Posted by Firegoat7 View Post
    BTW congratulations on achieving a full house for both tournaments. It certainly does not surprise me that it occurred and shows that those voices who called for the culling of the Australian open were misguided.
    Thanks

    Quote Originally Posted by Firegoat7 View Post
    There are a bunch of Victorians ie Tsagarakis,Brockman and Wyss who it seems every year are placed on different waiting lists. They tend to run 4 tournaments at the same time! The general rule is that only playesr below 200 points are placed on the waiting list. There entry is accepted on the provision that their are no guarantees that they will play in the stronger event.
    FReedom though Fischer-Random chess to enjoy the whole game.

  4. | #94
    Volunteer MOZ's Avatar
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    Default Is this the one you are waiting a response on? Comments in coloured text below.

    Quote Originally Posted by Firegoat7 View Post
    Thanks for your reply.

    I think your chess club needs to decide who the Australian Open +1600 and Australian Open -1600 is targeting as a player.
    Our bid to the ACF did not specify any targetting nor conditional acceptance of money. We have operated first come first served. Plus, wide publicity of the event.


    Quote Originally Posted by Firegoat7 View Post
    This is after all not a rookies cup designed for the rookie player.
    We run WAIT-lists on BHCC Championship and BHCC OPEN, not just Rookies. It is a function of venue size.

    Quote Originally Posted by Firegoat7 View Post
    What I really don't like about the current waiting system is that you are running with the notion that these players are equal in strength.

    Obviously not, we print their ratings.



    Quote Originally Posted by Firegoat7 View Post
    It should be clear that a number of Australian superstars have missed a spot.
    I see no Caeser, Lighty Hammo,Rujevic,ZYZ, Eddy or Zman for example in the field.
    Doug and John are in.

    Quote Originally Posted by Firegoat7 View Post
    It would be reasonable to suggest that they may not even know the deadline was November for the tournament!

    My best guess of the potential field size is that 100 more would have entered if there had been room. That is not 100 late enquiries; it is just my guess.


    Quote Originally Posted by Firegoat7 View Post
    Obviously it is not in the organisers interests to allow titled players in for free now.
    But on the other hand, why shouldn't the organisers charge a premium fee for such a bumping service?
    Because it was always First-Come First-Served, within the parameters we set in TryBooking.com
    We did not bid on the basis of some convoluted bumping premium.

    Quote Originally Posted by Firegoat7 View Post
    I don't see why players are guaranteed a spot in the Australian open +1600 if they are under 1600.
    The Matthew Sweeney's of the world would see the other side of this argument, as would the Geoff Saw's I guess. Nothing to stop you lobbing to have a regulation change.


    Quote Originally Posted by Firegoat7 View Post
    BTW congratulations on achieving a full house for both tournaments.
    Thanks

    Quote Originally Posted by Firegoat7 View Post
    BTW congratulations on achieving a full house for both tournaments. It certainly does not surprise me that it occurred and shows that those voices who called for the culling of the Australian open were misguided.

    It has surprised us, even if it did not surprise you..
    We budgetted for something like a 50/50 split in early-bird/full-paying, and HOUSE-FULL before the end of the EB period has left an (easily estimated) hole in our finance plan.


    Quote Originally Posted by Firegoat7 View Post
    There are a bunch of Victorians ie Tsagarakis,Brockman and Wyss who it seems every year are placed on different waiting lists. They tend to run 4 tournaments at the same time! The general rule is that only playesr below 200 points are placed on the waiting list. There entry is accepted on the provision that their are no guarantees that they will play in the stronger event.

    Quote Originally Posted by Firegoat7 View Post
    The silence from Moz is palpable. Please don't tell me there is no contingency plan.
    It is HOUSE FULL, and has been since just before the end of the early-bird option.
    There was a WAIT-list on 30/11/2018 while we looked to re-draw the floor layout.
    FReedom though Fischer-Random chess to enjoy the whole game.

  5. | #95
    Senior Member antichrist's Avatar
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    there were so many warnings out and the entries allowed were extended so nobody can complain. They could hold the minor in another location (free) so there is not so much distraction and make better conditions, less crowded for the higher rated. Then more higher rated players could enter and may enter due to better conditions. Ask and demand a freebie from MCC for the minor. Tell them that AC sent you.

  6. | #96
    Volunteer MOZ's Avatar
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    Default Have you entered the OPEN, or have you entered a HOLDING BAY.

    Quote Originally Posted by antichrist View Post
    there were so many warnings out and the entries allowed were extended so nobody can complain. They could hold the minor in another location (free) so there is not so much distraction and make better conditions, less crowded for the higher rated. Then more higher rated players could enter and may enter due to better conditions. Ask and demand a freebie from MCC for the minor. Tell them that AC sent you.
    It looks to me that you are bedfellows with fg7.

    An event is planned, called the Australian OPEN. Which looks to me it is OPEN to all, unconditional.

    Jimmy Upstart, rated 1001, is well organised and keen on chess, so he enters on day1 after the event is advertised. He pays to come South on the Spirit of Progress and stay in accommodation at nearby Box Hill. Sounds like a good plan eh.

    But a couple of weeks out from the start of the event, Hugh Ranker, rated 2001, who is not well organised even though Semester finished quite some time back, finally thinks to ask the question "I wonder if NORTHS are holding the Aus OPEN again this year".

    So, are you and fg7 telling Jimmy, "the OPEN is now CLOSED to you", and telling Hugh, "would you like a seat at the front sir"?
    FReedom though Fischer-Random chess to enjoy the whole game.

  7. | #97
    Senior Member antichrist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MOZ View Post
    It looks to me that you are bedfellows with fg7.

    An event is planned, called the Australian OPEN. Which looks to me it is OPEN to all, unconditional.

    Jimmy Upstart, rated 1001, is well organised and keen on chess, so he enters on day1 after the event is advertised. He pays to come South on the Spirit of Progress and stay in accommodation at nearby Box Hill. Sounds like a good plan eh.

    But a couple of weeks out from the start of the event, Hugh Ranker, rated 2001, who is not well organised even though Semester finished quite some time back, finally thinks to ask the question "I wonder if NORTHS are holding the Aus OPEN again this year".

    So, are you and fg7 telling Jimmy, "the OPEN is now CLOSED to you", and telling Hugh, "would you like a seat at the front sir"?
    You make it sound like when I moved to Townsville in 1971 - the whites were at the back and the Aborigines in the front with cheap seating. I was attempted chastised by my boss for courting a beauty queen Filipina nurse who topped the state in Qld board exams. She is still working 47 years later.

    now what were we talking about??

  8. | #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by antichrist View Post
    You make it sound like when I moved to Townsville in 1971 - the whites were at the back and the Aborigines in the front with cheap seating. I was attempted chastised by my boss for courting a beauty queen Filipina nurse who topped the state in Qld board exams. She is still working 47 years later.

    now what were we talking about??
    We were talking about whether you would be telling a Welsher, who had paid for accommodation and transport to Vic and entry to the tournament, he/she had been bumped and was no longer in the event he/she entered.

    And you simply ignored the question and launched into a space-filling analogy that had no relevance.


    ----

    Schoolies on the beach giving any problems?

    regards
    MOZ*
    FReedom though Fischer-Random chess to enjoy the whole game.

  9. | #99
    Senior Member antichrist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MOZ View Post
    We were talking about whether you would be telling a Welsher, who had paid for accommodation and transport to Vic and entry to the tournament, he/she had been bumped and was no longer in the event he/she entered.

    And you simply ignored the question and launched into a space-filling analogy that had no relevance.


    ----

    Schoolies on the beach giving any problems?

    regards
    MOZ*
    I could make an analogy about your critique of my analogy. aren't non topic non chess analogies allowed in chess threads?

    Listen mate, I did the schoolies whenever I could and to avoid the hot sun I repositioned and by the biggest co-incidence it faced the open air showers. Well lo and behold I could not concentrate on my game, like that guy in SA years ago in that chess comp who could not concentrate due to his opponents lack of garment. I had a shot of a few of them playing chess but I think no one would have looked at the pieces on the board. A few years ago it denigrated into strip chess until the cops came much to the boos from the pub across the road.

    Now about that Welsher, when they are low rated treat them like cannon and factory fodder and give them a Tin Cup awarded by Matt Sweeney. I hope the MCC club is not in smelling distance of the Yarra.

  10. | #100
    Senior Member Firegoat7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MOZ View Post
    Our bid to the ACF did not specify any targetting nor conditional acceptance of money. We have operated first come first served. Plus, wide publicity of the event.
    How did the players know this condition from the tournament flyer?
    Quote Originally Posted by Moz
    We run WAIT-lists on BHCC Championship and BHCC OPEN, not just Rookies. It is a function of venue size.
    Getting back to metrics. In Sydney 2015 they had 6 players sub 1600 playing after the tournament split 1573,1571,1523, 1436 (NSW) U/R (WA) and U/R (CAN). These figures may be different based on ACF vs Fide records.
    In Brisbane 2017 they had 7 players 1576,1560,155,1427,1294 (QLD) and 1489 1272 (NZL).

    Melbourne 2018 at the moment has 41 players 1481,U/R (NSW), 1512,1503,1264 (QLD) 1464, 1301 (ACT), 1449 (SA), 1465 (THA), 1295,1182 (SGP). U/R, U/R (Vic) and the rest are (Vic) .

    This is clearly a massive increase on the traditional 1600+ 1600- split from previous years.


    Quote Originally Posted by MOZ View Post

    My best guess of the potential field size is that 100 more would have entered if there had been room. That is not 100 late enquiries; it is just my guess.
    From a completely self interested subjective opinion the only reason I entered the event was to get an opportunity at a norm. And of course a large tail reduces those chances.


    Quote Originally Posted by MOZ View Post
    The Matthew Sweeney's of the world would see the other side of this argument, as would the Geoff Saw's I guess. Nothing to stop you lobbing to have a regulation change.
    Well they would be wrong in my opinion. I believe the Australian Open should be an event that offers International norm opportunities.

    Quote Originally Posted by Moz

    It has surprised us, even if it did not surprise you..
    We budgetted for something like a 50/50 split in early-bird/full-paying, and HOUSE-FULL before the end of the EB period has left an (easily estimated) hole in our finance plan.
    I appreciate the efforts the organising committee have made, but i still feel they have made an error on entry conditions and have reduced the prestige of the tournament in the process.
    I do wish you well with the tournament and my opinion is not that important as I understand the tournament organisers have a very tight margin for error.
    Ozchess died on the 7/4/2013- killed by Gatekeepers



  11. | #101
    Volunteer MOZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firegoat7 View Post
    How did the players know this condition from the tournament flyer?

    Getting back to metrics. In Sydney 2015 they had 6 players sub 1600 playing after the tournament split 1573,1571,1523, 1436 (NSW) U/R (WA) and U/R (CAN). These figures may be different based on ACF vs Fide records.
    In Brisbane 2017 they had 7 players 1576,1560,155,1427,1294 (QLD) and 1489 1272 (NZL).

    Melbourne 2018 at the moment has 41 players 1481,U/R (NSW), 1512,1503,1264 (QLD) 1464, 1301 (ACT), 1449 (SA), 1465 (THA), 1295,1182 (SGP). U/R, U/R (Vic) and the rest are (Vic) .

    This is clearly a massive increase on the traditional 1600+ 1600- split from previous years.
    The analogies of Brisbane and Sydney have led you astray for two causes:
    1. Victorian Juniors have very high participation results in premier events. To see the strength of Victorian juniors you only have to look at the recent National School Teams Finals where we won all four divisions.
    2. The largest private coaching organisation in Victorian often insists that their students play UP if at all possible.



    Quote Originally Posted by Firegoat7 View Post
    From a completely self interested subjective opinion the only reason I entered the event was to get an opportunity at a norm. And of course a large tail reduces those chances.
    Whew!. And here I was I thinking you planned to scalp your spot in the field.


    Quote Originally Posted by Firegoat7 View Post
    Well they would be wrong in my opinion. I believe the Australian Open should be an event that offers International norm opportunities.

    Quote Originally Posted by Firegoat7 View Post
    I appreciate the efforts the organising committee have made, but i still feel they have made an error on entry conditions and have reduced the prestige of the tournament in the process.
    I do wish you well with the tournament and my opinion is not that important as I understand the tournament organisers have a very tight margin for error.

    In post #27 in this thread you wrote:
    The irony will be that MCC will be empty and under utilsed during the tournament, but it has carrying capacity problems anyway if the tournament is over 120 players.
    Even at that stage the if word in your post shows that forecasts of entries were fraught.
    FReedom though Fischer-Random chess to enjoy the whole game.

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